Outliers+Discussion+Notes

Outliers Discussion Notes (Write your name, date, and the work you did)

= Researcher = Your job is to dig up some background information on any topic related to your book. This might include:
 * the geography, weather, culture, or history of the book's setting
 * additional information about something mentioned in the book that strikes you say an event, person, theme
 * fact checking. Simply checking up on research and evidence presented in the book.

This is not a formal research report. The idea is to find some information or material that helps your group understand the book better. Please make sure you cite where you get your info. Start Here > **FACT CHECK: Trends in International Mathematics and Science Study** (TIMSS) -->provides reliable and timely data on the mathematics and science achievement of U.S. 4th- and 8th-grade students compared to that of students in other countries. TIMSS data have been collected in 1995, 1999, 2003, and 2007." > []**looked up hockey players in Canada success** > As we saw majority of success is based on time, being born at the right time is crucial in being successful at certain things. Obviously to be highly successful with computer one would most likely be born in the mid 1950's when computer were becoming more popular and later able to bought by individual families in school. However does date of Birth always effect someone's success? ** > Oppenheimer was truly smart and had practical intelligence. No one makes it into Harvard without being extremely smart. (Acceptance rate now is at a 6.9) Oppenheimer's date of birth - 1904 - made him 38 at the time when the Manhattan Project started. Is not as importance as someones age, like the hockey players, but obviously if he had been born 10 years later he probably would not have been the leading physicist. Fact checked Chris Langan and Robert Oppenheimer's stories.Looked up CMUT, and its really confusing. If that helps at all. > I was the Researcher for pages 116-158 Here is my research which is due May 13th ** I went and found a website that has all of the years cataloged with the number of births that occurred. we can use this for our discussion to get an idea on what our generation is compared to those before and after us. Also we can use this to see if we have one of those circumstances given to us that will help us become outliers as well. Also, during class we can use this chart and find which set of dates would be best to be born in and than see if anyone extremely successful was born during the different years that we picked. Here is the website: [|http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0005067.html] 5.**Simone Wicker May 18 I researched the transcripts of the plane crashes discussed in the book, then found the recordings of many plane crashes all around the world. Most interestingly I found the contrast in communication from different places around the world. Although I do not know if the pilots or first officers came from the airline they were flying, it was interesting to see how different people reacted. I found a website discussing the questions people had on the flight- " this is why all pilots who fly internationally today must pass an English Proficiency Test prior to being issued with a flying license." <--- this sentence is a direct example of the importance of the understanding of how ethnicity relates to this crash. Below is an image of the Avianca plane crash: [] [] []**
 * 1) **Simone- May 4 Pages 1-35**
 * 1) **Mitchell Perry** **May 7 Pages 36-91
 * 1) **Matt O'Donnell - May 10, 91-116**
 * 1) **Chris Hess May 13


 * Mitchell 224-end**

This site shows each step of growing rice [] it is important to see all the steps taken to grow rice and how hard it is to grow rice, it explains how and why Asian people are generally hard working, its their culture, it is their background.

The next list of sites comes directly from the kipp.org website. The first link shows statistics from the 2007-2008 school year,[]. As you can grades are higher then normal, and how the average student enters the academy with a below average schools, but over the course of their school career the scores have improved greatly.

The next site not only compares the test scores of A

Discussion Director
Your job is to write down a few questions that you had about this selection. What were you wondering about while you were reading? Did you have questions about what was being described? Why the author used a certain style? How things fit together? What the whole thing means? Or any other question you might have pertaining to the selection or you would like to pose to your group members. List out all your questions on your personal page. You will need to be prepared to lead and guide the in-class discussion that takes during class for your group. You will also need to jot down notes during the discussion and post them on your groups main page. Start Here > **Why did the author use such detailed stories in his writing? > We have come to the opinion that his evidence was very dense and clear and proved his points very well, it also convinces the reader with all of this evidence from various topics. Also, he has written more evidence than his own analysis proving that he has plenty of information to prove his points. > ** **What did you think the story was going to lead to? > We expected that each of these short stories would be tied together to prove a constant theme, concept, or idea that clearly stood out within each of the stories and he will eventually be able to tie them all together in a final chapter to conclude his hypothesis. > Did the information benefit the authors point or take away from it?** > It clearly benefited the authors point by defended his ideas through enormous amounts of information detailed stories that made it absolutely clear and obvious that the thesis he is attempting to prove is very clear and accurate, also these stories provide changes in the way his writing is displayed that keeps the reader entertained and very interested in what the author is writing about. > **Do you like the author's style of using detailed stories to convey his ideas? > Yes, it provides a changing storyline that does not become extremely repetitive and also give the author a large amount of credibility due to the amount of information he has been able to provide. > ** **Do you think the book is organized skillfully, even though it jumps around in its topics. > Yes, because even though the story changes topics frequently, each can be tied back to the authors main thesis and in clear and concise manner that provides new and interesting topics that keeps the reader interested. **    No- certain group of people have ability to do that not a lot of people: old enough to recognize what you're doing take over your life b/c they started this when they were young. Yes- if you work as hard as you can, you're bound to get better if they spend 10,000 hours - takes money and time 2. How does the essential question apply to Bill Joy? The Beatles? Circumstances in this case 1960s- computer class -- so close to University of Michigan (top computer school) set up by circumstances, but still relies on individuals - he was a genius and was interested in computers. 3. Are IQ tests accurate in determining more than just the ability to solve overall intelligence? 115 to get through college= 115 highest to need to have smart people can be too smart--> high, high IQs hinder b/c "street smart" is pushed out IQ only goes so far, you need creativity, communication skills, logic, analysis to be smart
 * 1) **Chris Hess -May 4 Pages 1-35**
 * 1) **Simone Wicker May 7th Pages 36-91**
 * 1. Do you think the average person has the ability to expertise with 10,000 hours?

4. Do you think our birth year will turn out to be a successful one? Yes- techno logic advances ex. people born in video game era-- learned how to= more successful -people who are old -- not good with computers - grew up with attached to a computer 5. Does intelligence truly determine how successful a person will be? see notes- question #****3

Mitchell Perry 4-10 pages 91-116** It is always circumstantial, classes do not always mean every person in that certain class are the same. Work ethic comes into play hear because as we have seen many times before people of the poorer families can get great opportunities. 3.) **What is the perfect environment as a child that will lead to success as an adult?**At least a good education, but can't be overly spoiled. The perfect mix is between the lower and upper class. It is necessary for the child to be independent and not babied all the time, but no abandoned. The child must be well rounded, a hybrid between the well educated but spoiled upper class, and the lower class more resourceful, but less educated.
 * 1) **Does class really matter? We learned that being a little bit better can mean everything in sports, does your class mean everything in terms of IQ and smarts?**


 * Matt O'Donnell May 13**


 * 1) **Do you think a young Christian boy from the New York with the same ambitions would have the chance Flom did?**
 * 2) Jewish faith pushes people to work harder, so he worked as hard as he could to become a lawyer. And the circumstance that people would not hire a Jewish lawyer, so he formed his own company, making him extremely successful. So relating to the essential question, the circumstances and back round helped his reach success.
 * 3) **If Joseph Flom was born a little bit latter than he had been, do you think he would be as successful?**
 * 4) No when his opportunity came, it was right after the end of the depression, so if he was younger, he wouldn't have had that chance.
 * 5) **Relating to the essential question, which do you think played a greater role in Joseph Floms success, hard work and ambitions, or his time and back round that he was born into?**
 * 6) **His hard work and ambitions played a greater part, but this had a little bit to do with his religion, but not all Jewish people could work as hard as he did. So his hard work played a greater part, which is against what the book is saying about the essential question.**

Do you think that the circumstances that you are immersed in upon birth truly affect the way you conduct your life? Do you believe that most accidents do not occur from one major problem, but instead multiple compiling upon each other into a catastrophe? What did you think about the conversations that took place in the cockpits moments prior to the plane crashed? It was surprising to see that the american pilot can easily deal with foreign people, a strange airport, and landing heavy, he communicated well a clearly and dealt with the issue extremely well. But the Columbian pilots who are much more afraid to question authoritative figures tried to shy away from issues and not cause problems, that resulted with the death of about 80 people. How do you feel about the US being one of the top most assertive and questioning of authority nations? Why do you think it is so assertive? It makes a lot of sense because our democratic system condones people expressing their own opinions to vote a certain person into power. This gives people a feeling of power and the realization that they can express their ideas without getting in trouble. This also makes sense because people are all expected to be treated equal regardless of their stature in society, furthering peoples confidence. How do you feel about the way airline companies have reworked the way in which they operate? How does this new evidence and ideas affect your opinion on the essential question? Has it changed as the reading has progressed? This book has really proved that people must be given great circumstances that can be used, and be smart and willing enough to take full advantage of them and be aware of what options that they have. This also means that the essential question is completely right, individuals make history, but they must be given some of the history to make it happen. It is a mix of both. Asians believe in hard work-- worked in rice paddy farms, had fixed rent so more work they did the more money, instead of working for food, they worked for money. Background makes them work harder today. Work ethic between generations ---> if they come to America, not necessarily "smart" --could be Americanized and work at McDonald's. Because they spoke the language it was easier to add/subtract numbers automatically, so working hard is a choice of the person once they break away from their culture, but will always have incentive. How do surroundings (suburb/city) have an effect on the individual in terms of success? Suburbs are "child friendly" - easier to grow up compared to the ghetto Children who grow up in city develop defense skills, have to be assertive, more independent --> later in life have social skills Suburb kids can be raised independently and develop those same social skills ** - Date of Birth -Circumstances -Opportunities Was the ending what you expected? How did his personal experience make the story understandable?** -Confused on how he was qualified to write this -telling his story through other peoples stories -used examples, used his own story to get point across -Had a strong a point and did it in a different way than most books All the people in the book make up him, wouldn't be effective if he just used his story did an autobiography and had his own research.
 * Chris Hess May 18th**
 * Yes, some cultures are completely based around respect elders and authority. Versus other countries which condone equality throughout society creating a balance in how people treat people in a position of authority. But it also has a lot to do with how you are brought by your parents and how you are taught to treat others.**
 * It makes sense that this can occur because larger issues will be noticed and dealt with quickly and sensibly, but if multiple small problems occur that are stretched across multiple people, they will not attract attention until they slowly become a serious issue.**
 * It made a lot of sense because instead of firing everyone and restarting, they sent Americans to the countries that were less assertive and began teaching them how to question authority in a confident manner by removing the proper ways of speaking and creating an equal environment.**
 * Simone Wicker May 21**
 * How does race, specifically the Asian race, play a role into success? Is this the same as culture?
 * What elements of this entire book did you think were the most effective in relating to the essential question? Favorite parts?

Passage Master
Your job is to locate a few special selections of the reading that the group should look back on. The idea is to help people notice the most interesting, funny, puzzling, or important sections of the text. You decide which passages or paragraphs are worth reviewing. Jot down the page number & paragraph, reason for picking this paragraph, and why it is of value for review. This response should be located on your personal page. Start Here 1. The different birth dates that were looked at and how they correlate with the people success. Page 68, This was some of the most important information in this section of reading and it will be very valuable to review. 2. The IQ tests that the book included Page 86. This will be useful to get a better idea on how multiple people score on these tests. 3. The final sections of review and personal speculation that the author included will also be very helpful to review and think about in a group, page 89-90 3. **Simone Wicker May 10** 2. the story of Chris Langan analysis 98 3. the story of Robert Oppenheimer analysis 99 --comparison of the two-- how they "could not be more different" **
 * 1) **Matt O'Donnell May 4**
 * 2) How walking around and talking to people in Roseto set apart the people that are from there.
 * 3) How maybe Canada's perspective on hockey might also change and help Gladwells' point
 * 4) Why basketball is not the same as hockey or European soccer. page 26
 * 5) page 34, Does it take both passion/talent/hard work AND this coincident when they are born
 * 2. Chris Hess Tuesday-Thursday May 4-6**
 * 1. Working class & poor children characterized, how wealthy children were characterized 104-105
 * 4. Mitchell Perry may 13**
 * The story of Large firms and how small ones that saw everything turned out on the top **117-130**
 * The flood of Jewish workers into America **The entire chapter**
 * The ability to see what people need and why **142**
 * How Adversity changed into opportunity for the Jewish Lawyers **pg. 129**


 * 1) **May 18 chapters 6 and 7 - Matt O'Donnell**


 * 1) 147/175* Northerner and southerners anger peak. Being in Virginia... where does that put a lot of us? more towards the southern side or northern side?
 * 2) All of chapter 6. How we inherit certain attitudes form our culture an ancestors and how that effects our success.
 * 3) Look back on the situation of Ratwatte's situation (190) and compare. What if that had been a Korean pilot? Or a Columbian pilot?
 * 4) 217 conversation of mitigation. When do you think its right to use mitigation and not use it?
 * 5) 221 "Captain, the weather radar has helped a lot." Would this happen in our culture?
 * 6) All of chapter 7. How does this relate to the essential question?
 * Chris Hess : Passage Master for ** **Friday May 21st Pages 224 to the End here are my passages:

1. I selected page 227 where he uses the set of numbers to prove his theory about the two second memory span. I think it will be fun to review this concept and see what my fellow group mates think. 2. I picked 236 where the book talks about that when people care about what they are working on they put more effort in. I think it will be interesting to see if this also pertains to effort put into schoolwork. I know it holds the same for me but more opinions will be good to compare. 3. 238 has multiple quotes from rice farmers that were very important and should definitely be reviewed. 4. Page 250 begins the story of Marita, i think it will be very humbling to compare our experiences for schooling to a 12 year old who had to get up at 4 every morning and then take a subway ride all by herself. 5. 285 is the final ending which I did not think really fulfilled my expectations for the conclusion. I would like to see what my group mates thinks and ask them how the final chapters affect their opinions on the essential question. **

Connector
Your job is to find connections between the material your group is reading and the world outside. This means connecting the reading to your own life, to happenings at school or in the community, to stories in the news, to similar events at other times and places, to other people or problems that you are reminded of. You might also see connections between this material and other writings on the same topic, or by the same author. There are no right answers here--whatever the reading connects you with is worth sharing. You are also responsible for leading making sure during class discussions that day's reading somehow connects with the groups essential question.

** Our group is going to be efficient according to the Matthew's Effect because all of our group excluding one(Chris) were born between the months January through April. This meaning we have more practice and are more mature when it comes school. However in Chris's case he was born October, but was born in 1993 not 1994 like the majority of our grade. Chris compared to the 10th grade class would be the most mature and one of the smarter people, if he were compared to the junior class he would be the youngest with the least amount of school experience and maturity. **2. **Matt O'Donnell May 6th We hear many people talk about how they want their kid to go and play a professional sport one day. According to the 10,000 rule, of you wanted your child to be at the professional level by 21,this would mean you child would have to play 2 hours every day, from the age of 7. Putting this into prospective, we see why many and most people do not become professional athletes. It would take an extreme amount of commitment and money to have your child play that long. Many families don't have the time or the money to do that. --- Most people would say that the smartest person in our school is Keith Wamsley. Not necessarily a genius on the level of Chris Langan, but we can all relate to him. We can tell that hes not a super genius, because he has very good social skills and has an imagination. But, what if Mr. Wamsley had a higher IQ? Would he loose that imagination. 3.** **Chris Hess May 10** What I curious to see, is how the learning about the trough generation applies to the current generations. A trough generation is the point at which the generations before it where large and their parents were prosperous, but the economy went bad and the generation following it was much smaller. All the planning before this generation had been prepared for a larger generation that was not create, instead there is a smaller one. This creates a high demand for jobs creating circumstances where this smaller generation will have an easier time getting a job. I would like to do some research in class and see the differences in the current generations to see how this "trough" idea connects to the current populations today.
 * 1**. **Mitchell Perry May 4**

An interesting connection I made was people's commitments to their religion and their family and what that means for them in terms of their success. It is interesting that Flom has an obligation to his religion and has to work, which is like many people today who have stories of success because of the way their lifestyle is. Also, people have obligations to their family for work, for example family run businesses. **
 * 4. Simone Wicker May 13

Something very interesting about many plane crashes are not due to one error, but multiple errors, and many plane crashes have to do with honors and customs of different countries. In many other countries, not including America, mainly South America or Asian countries lower ranking, in this case airline workers, must honor and respect higher authority fully. This is a major problem in the airline industry because often people of higher authority make mistakes, but the lower ranking engineers, first officers or even flight attendants are afraid to say things that could prevent plane crashes because they do not want to disrespect there pilots or air traffic control. Without multiply people putting in their input planes can not be run properly.
 * 5. Mitchell Perry May 18**

With the cultural advantage, do you think Asians would need to work less? There are a lot of Asians in the United States that aren't that good at math. Is that because the don't speak any other language other than English? Also does the Chinese culture of working hard connect to the rule of 10,000 hours? Is working hard more connected with the individual or the background? In Chapter 9, it talks about summer programs and more time in school helps student in the path of success. With our schedule made to give us the most free time as possible, and spend the least amount of time in school (more or less), is this schedule helping us?
 * Matt O'Donnell May 19**